hi - after a prolonged gap; here, attempts at a recap. (we know, we were other-wise-busy).
the reading group was quiet for the past few days. though we watched a couple of movies, the discussions weren't as lively as we've had earlier (why?). well, the spanish movie 'talk to her' - initiated a discussion. Sowmya initiated an argument over the 'rape of Alicia' on friday, post-screening. what followed was a set of questions and two long interpretations/readings. Apparently, Sowmya suggested whether this could be carried forward into a combined paper on "straight"ness of cinema.
remember, the group also watched the tamil movie 'paruthiveeran' a month ago.
these are the questions Sowmya formulated:
1. yes, all clues point towards benigno being gay. but why was he behind
Alicia in the first place? he could be bi-sexual but does that mean he
would not have made love to her?
2. why did the silent movie about the dwarfed man entering the woman
disturb benigno? he says he was disturbed and then we see the formation of
an embryo.
3. If Alicia cant recognise anything in her coma state, how can she
recognise marcos in the end? only because they made love?
4. i vaguely remember marcos saying that "benigno gave life to Alicia"
does he say that? if yes, what does it mean?
5. is there any indication of when marcos could have "raped" alicia?
Barath's response/reading:
ReplyDelete1) Benigno being gay is different here, cos even if he is one, he loved Alicia. It could either make him a bi or not. also there could have been something in her that would have attracted him in the first place, no written rule that a gay couldnt get attracted to a girl. something more on him, all life he had been alone, and in his teens he was with his ailing mother taking care of her and then he saw Alicia and she met with an accident and from then for next 4 years he took care of her. Remember the dialogue, he has hugged a very few ppl in his life, Beningo longed for someone all his life, he could see that Marcos was someone who could love, he was also someone emotional like him, that could have attracted beningo more. and the climax dialogues tells more about beningo that he wanted to travel with marco and wanted marco explained the world to him. it was more of a longing, may be that could make beningo a gay, but that wouldnt stop beningo from loving alicia. and Also beningo who never had a male companion in his growing up years would have made him love marcos.
2) He had never known a woman other than his mother, and alicia was the first woman other than his mothr in his life and him being her nurse also made him . to know a woman more intimately, and even if in love with alicia, she wouldnt have allowed Beningo to deal with her so intimately with her body if she was well. Unknown things always make us curious enough to get disturbed.The showing of an embro formation was a subtle hint to tell us the act of love-making
3) Absolutely, I go with that ma'm, then again the showing of embro gives a subtle hint with a million dollar question, Who made love??????
4) His unshattering faith in miracles, marcos could have meant that! and the way he took care of her... and I don remember that! have to watch the movie again...
5) Marcos couldn't have "raped" alicia, may be, if making love to an unconcious woman makes it an act of un-consensual and un-conjugal ( thanks to lenny) makes it an act of raping. But Marcos just CANNOT do that to alicia...
Yes ma'm, there are chances that marcos could have made love to alicia that why she could remember her. and also we can take it this way too.. may be marco did make love to her and it is the guilt that drove him to help Beningo till the end.
Lenny's response/reading:
ReplyDeletei think, it was clear the director wanted us (the audience/readers?)
to believe benigno SHOULD have been the rapist. The movie also makes
it obvious. The director 'kills' benigno when he learns that alicia's
child is dead. now, why should benigno commit suicide? isn't because
he couldn't realize 'talking' to alicia junior(be it a girl or a boy)
besides, his anxiety towards alicia's delivery, his decision to commit
suicide and his desire to become like alicia - to be talked to (ha!
what a phrase - thanks to english dept!)- signify that he must have
'raped' Alicia and expected a child thorough her.
however, the visuals and some contradictory dialogues perturbed me.
especially, the one where marco meets benigno at the 'prison'. there,
their images super cede each other's when they speak. marco and
benigno, at the same time, inside and outside the cabin. so did each
see their alter ego, their split image in the other? or did the
director wanted us to see benigno as marco and vice versa? remember,
marco told the old lady that benigno is innocent.
secondly, it was benigno who disturbs marco's 'gaze' on alicia and not
vice versa. remember the first time he gazes at her nude
body from outside through the partially opened door. it was benigno's
voice that disturbs him. the second time, he gazes at her breasts (now
he had left Lydia) benigno disturbs him again and questions -'are you
concentrating on her breasts?'. Marco becomes the silent observer over
benigno and alicia - remember the scene where he looks at them from
the other portico for some time. after this he goes to meet benigno
and learns alicia's story from him. so was marco interested in alicia
- erotically?
and importantly, as i remember, when benigno cleans alicia the night
he tells her the story of 'the shrinking lover', he starts with 'why
am-i not feeling anything?' - and he is shown on top of alicia's body
cleaning her breasts. so COULD he have raped her?(perhaps, The director expects us to read this way)
the confusion here is - why is the visual language contradictory to
the dialogues? so is the director playing with the characters and the
story and with us?
building on - why did he (the director) 'kill' a woman who was
masculine- Lydia and a man who was effeminate- benigno ? - both of
them in a way committed suicide. He even 'killed' the offspring,
supposedly born to a 'feminine' woman and an effeminate perhaps, a
bi-sexual man. the ones who survived the director's wrath were Marco
(now alone) and Alicia with a walking stick (but alive). but why were
two people who were in way different and 'abnormal' eliminated?
hence, i felt, the director suggests that Marco and Alicia would or
'should' make a 'natural' pair. and therefore, why not naturally
imagine Marco raping Alicia?